THIS IS THE SECOND IN A SERIES OF INTERVIEWS OF TRAINING ASSOCIATES: Nico Amador interviews Erika Thorne, a training associate with Training for Change.

Erika Thorne has been a progressive activist, writer, facilitator and cultural worker since 1974. She focuses on anti-racism work with other white people, coalition-building, and diversity work. Erika has worked with environmental justice and media justice groups, undocumented immigrants, Hmong organizations, domestic violence activists, housing projects residents, and a full range of non-profits, organizers and rabble-rousers.

Erika is a Partner in Future Now Training in Minneapolis, and has been Training Associate with Training for Change for 16 years.

You have over 30 years experience as an activist, what stands out from that journey?

Without a doubt, one of the most impactful moments was when I was at an Movement for a New Society meeting [a network of U.S. based activists that participated in social movements in the 1970's and 1980's] and it hit me, on a gut level. My own racism came out in a very public way, and I "got it" that I, as a white revolutionary, was racist and was participating in racism. This "ah-ha" moment shaped my life focus and put me on a path to be committed to anti-racism work.

So, the richest overall part of my activism experience has been my journey as a white person committed to racial justice. Twenty-five years ago, I didn't know other white people committed to racial justice. I hadn't learned about the concept of being a "white ally," yet I was quite consumed [with fighting racism] once I "got it."

One thing that happened spontaneously was the relationships I formed with people of color here in the Midwest, which has been predominantly white. Many people of color hadn't met a white person as openly committed as I was to anti-racism work, and an open, proud lesbian to boot! We put each other through changes for sure I began evaluating the behavior and thinking of other white people.

So the other thing that happened was that I committed to working with other white people on institutions that benefited us.

I, as an activist, was able to go from being really pissed off at myself and other white people about racism, which wasn't effective -- I wasn't able to see the humanity of myself and other white people at first. Gradually, I learned to provide effective leadership. I was a good ways into my anti-racism work before I was a part of Training for Change. TFC tools helped me deal with my anger and shame and helped me to develop love for everyone concerned - for society as a whole. I needed to find that compassion and humanity, the level of coming from my heart.

That is a life-long process. And that is what stands out for me in terms of my life and social change.

In addition to your identity and a white anti-racist activist, what are the core parts of your identity that have informed your work as a trainer?

Being a lesbian is core, there should be a bigger word than core!

I'm 53, born in 1954, and I've been a lesbian all my life. But where I grew up I'd never heard that word or concept. I found out about the term "lesbian" in 1972, and found out there was a lesbian community in 1978.

Something I've realized from the trans[gender] community is that during that time lesbians took the female principle and lifted it up in the same way the male principle had been lifted up by mainstream society. It was a big part of who I was to maximize the positive characterization of everything female. But now I realize that identifying so strongly with a traditional gender classification is itself counter to progressive change. There needed to be "women crazy" folks to battle the sexism I grew up and to get rid of the internalized oppression. Now the queer movement has built on that revolutionary movement and showed us that our gender conception is part of a "power-over" construction.

The queer movement has been helpful for making space for trans people and accepting bisexuals who many in my generation mocked, and brought down to vulgar and dismissive places. I think the trans movement is so revolutionary. I see it building very directly on what we were doing as lesbian feminists. We were building on gay culture and butch/femme roles and everything people did to create culture before 1969 [the Stonewall rebellion which launched LGBT civil rights struggle].

It's been an exciting thing to be alive for, to be my age and see the sexual identity movement; it has been a beautiful ride and very encouraging. I've seen significant change, change that has made things better for many people. That is one reason I focus on racial justice--we must have more gains there, but white racism gets in the way.

So what has all this meant for your role as a Training Associate? How has your particular perspective contributed to the culture and methodology of TFC's work?

My sheer ecstasy at being a lesbian has had a swell impact. I'm not sure why...maybe not everyone has run across an ecstatic lesbian! So I've provided leadership of someone in this marginalized identity saying, "this is who I am and I'm sure glad!" That's been nice, it's been a subtler impact, an impact on organizational cultural.

My commitment to anti-racism and level of experience of working with other white people by the time I started on the Training Associate path...I hesitate to do credit taking but I think that who I am and my experience significantly opened some doors in how direct education approached this aspect of mainstream/margin work. I think it impacted people who were central at that time. It feels dicey for me to say that.

Why do you think it feels dicey?

I've felt so angered when any given mainstream taken credit for any positive work with the mainstream's own group, it seems like clueless mainstream behavior and it is suspect - to lift up our achievements in regards to the margin. Hmm, but how do we move the work forward if I'm not willing to say what I've done well?

How DO we move the work forward?

There is a difference between taking credit in an inappropriate way and honestly evaluating what had an impact or how we could make things better. "Noticings" is what we do in direct education, valuing both what is working well and mistakes that were made. That's how we move forward. We focus on what's strong because that has a purpose, not because we are aggrandizing the mainstream.

One thing that I find striking about TFC trainers is that all of you have multiplicity of talents and interests that surface in your personalities as trainers. If there is one passion that you have that could show up as a more intimate part of TFC's work, what would it be?

In every other group I've been engaged in I would say it's my passion for dance & the kinesthetic. But myself and two other Training Associates, Daniel [Hunter] and Karen [Ridd] have had a big impact on strengthening the kinesthetic activities that can be used in participatory learning.

How I would answer the question for TFC is more in thinking about my experience as a lesbian and the cross-generational work we did by necessity. I would like the cross-generational wisdom to be more present in direct education work as much as wisdom about mainstreams and margins is.

One way we could approach it is in our facilitation teams. I think that there are other ways, issue and content wise, and through the use of electronic sites and other technology. Let's advocate for that in the plans for the future of TFC!

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